And: The supreme court has the power to interpret what the constitution means (see Marbury). Press J to jump to the feed. The comment will be discarded. Think this is a good alternative to Hodge Road for training? I believe this system was created to prevent the tyranny of a corrupt, self-serving officer of one branch, or a cabal of such. Check out our great collection of pistol braces, pistol tubes, pistol stabilizers, and side folding braces for AR pistols. The ATF's power is enforcement ONLY, and regulation is only in the assistance of enforcement, not the 'clarification' of the lawful directive. Sorry, that's complete nonsense. Technical Note: while an SBR — a short barreled rifle — is regulated by the NFA, enforced by the ATF, and is a special class of firearm requiring registration, payment of a $200 tax, and other restrictions (e.g. The brace is made from soft polymer rubber and is incredibly thick. Fortunately, things like the Super Redhawk and the Glock 20 are already legally available to serve that need. Our comments changed the course of that, we maybe able to do that here. U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz announced on his podcast "Hot Takes with Matt Gaetz" the ATF is crafting new rules concerning pistol braces. I am far more offended at the constant and often successful attempts to exceed the Constitutional bounds of power than the mere language of my complaint. The Pistol Brace is NOT A STOCK, but can be used on AK47, AR15 ,FAL, and other Style Pistols available 2014: ATF rules against shouldering braces. [–]dL_EVO[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 months ago (1 child). Jesus fucking Christ do you guys actually read the articles? on crossing state lines), a pistol with a stabilizing brace remains just a normal pistol like any other.This is because a pistol brace is not a shoulder stock. In particular if you think you have a novel argument, which nobody else has made. The ATF has announced new guidance on how it will determine the overall length of AR pistols and what does or does not enter into NFA territory when is comes to pistols utilizing a stabilizing brace along with other accessories. And as the owner of a magnum revolver, I have experience shooting handguns at 1600 ft-lbs, even one-handed (not pleasant, but doable), but those are guns that are carefully designed to be used without a stock. NRA.org, Joe Biden Wants to Ban 9mm Pistols, Nov. 25, 2019 Seattle Times, Speaking at the ‘House of Amazon,’ Joe Biden gently raises company’s role in middle-class job losses , Nov. 15, 2019 The few braces I saw in the flesh were clearly being used as shoulder stocks; it is actually super easy to spot them at the range, because it looks like someone is firing an SBR with a really silly stock (sort of hunched over and folded). ATF - Pistol Brace Comments (self.CAguns), Can we get a roll call to those are have or are going to comment regarding the ATFs clarification around pistol stabilizing braces. Following the announcement from the ATF that the Honey Badger Pistol was not a pistol, but in fact, an SBR, it seems like the rumors of an ATF going after pistol braces may be true. Gaetz said he and six of his congressional colleagues have sent a letter to the acting ATF director, Regina Lombardo, and Atty. In was back in 2013 when inventor Alex Bosco came up with the pistol brace and after letter back from BATFE about the legality of the newly created device Bosco found himself in partnership with Sig Sauer and the SB-15 pistol brace … No profanity. Pursue Your Passion. the legislature (congress) has given the ATF the power to write regulation, and enforce it. My only concern is that it’s a bit of a long drive. You’re the reason they think they can get away with this shit. In addition, there is no such thing as a stupid question. 90.5k members in the gunpolitics community. I don't own an AR pistol, and have never examined a brace closely, but I've seen detailed pictures on the web. Use this sub to discuss and ask questions about California's gun laws and politics. I have a AR pistol with a pinned magazine. It doesn't appear in any feeds, and anyone with a direct link to it will see a message like this one. The California Assault Weapon Identification Flowchart, The California Handgun Identification Flowchart, The California Shotgun Identification Flowchart. The MCX pistol with a folding brace is super compact and easy to carry. The mag is not removable so it isn't an assault weapon under NY law. “Upon further consultation with the Department of Justice and the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, ATF is withdrawing, pending further DOJ review, the notice and request for comments entitled, “Objective Factors … For a deeper dive into the legal history of braces check out our write-up on Pistol Braces & The ATF. How's that comment? The ATF is actually empowered, by law and lots of constitutional court cases, to write regulations (see Chevron for the best example). I've played this game before (not with the ATF, with the CA DoJ), and some of my comments were quoted in the report. [–]dL_EVO[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago (4 children). An adult trying to shoot a kid's rifle with a a 10" or 12" LOP. [–]treefaeller 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago (1 child). You can believe your wrong version as much as you want, but it won't get you anywhere. So, the ATF released a statement that said shouldering a pistol brace would make your pistol an SBR, which is illegal: "Consequently, the attachment of the SB-15 brace to an AR-type pistol alone; would not change the classification of the pistol to an SBR. You don't and I don't, but SCOTUS does. The best AR-15 pistol stabilizing brace is in a league of its own, and its own price bracket. I don't think anything in law, regulation or common sense says that gun stocks have to be made out of walnut and not out of bacon. If you have a good argument for why braces should be legal ... write it. Rainier Arms. Tag: Brace ban. Regulation is law and the ATF has no power to create such. Do you feel that 'circumventing' a law is an illegal act? And if 90% of the comments received are clueless stuff like that, that doesn't look good. As opposed to Unconstitutional ones? A recent post circulating Facebook may just highlight things to come. Moving back out to Cali tomorrow. Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. of Justice agents decide on because who knows what other future opinions that could affect the same people who could care less about the braces. Ask away. Use shop42a.com when shopping on Amazon and part of your purchase will be donated to the Calguns Foundation. I have not seen very many braces myself, only a few at the range. Not a Pistol Brace Ban…Yet Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces” The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (``ATF'') is publishing the objective factors it considers when evaluating firearms with an attached stabilizing brace to determine whether they are considered firearms under the National Firearms Act … Now that i found the link to it i will for sure be commenting. But it’s also a very different kind of pistol brace. Sure, continue believing that. They made it pretty clear we cannot use profanity in comments or they won’t be counted. Pistol brace design has evolved over time, but this classic pistol brace remains of the industries favorites. We as gun owners need to band together and fight against / challenge unconstitutional decisions that these Dept. A Little History Lesson. Treat all guns as if they're loaded (even when you know they aren't). I guess it could be theoretically possible to strap a brace to one's forearm and try to fire an AR pistol single-handed, but that seems like a really bad idea for anyone who can instead use both arms, given the weight and recoil of that thing, and the very unergonomic weight distribution of the AR platform. I know. However, ATF is absolutely attempting to crack down on what it will consider a pistol… No, circumventing the law is not an illegal act, at least not most of the time, with common criminal and civil law. As per reddit's new rules, all advertising, selling, or trading of firearms, ammunition, or accessories are now prohibited. Last I checked the ATF has zero authority to create rules, and cannot make law. Is there any reason that a law folding brace wouldn't be legal? empowered, by law and lots of constitutional court cases. [–]problemgrumblingTHE ANSWER IS 10(MM) 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago* (0 children), it should not be surprising that the "law" (in this particular case regulation) is updated. I don't know of any NY law that would ban a folding brace… It's nice for your side of the argument that most courts in the land of the law accept it, but it's nice for my side of the argument that there has been constant surpassing of the limits of governing power by all branches in many cases; one example the claim that the Supreme Court can interpret the Constitution itself, when the Judiciary is granted only the power to interpret law UNDER the Constitution, by writ. "You're not an office of the Legislature, you don't get to write the rules of law. Don’t think it can I commented yesterday and I really encourage others to do so (even if they do not own a pistol with a brace). I've played this game before (not with the ATF, with the CA DoJ), and some of my comments were quoted in the report. I didn’t see a link to the leaked documents in the article. Follow Reddit's rules and have a pleasant stay! Pistols fitted with a stabilizing brace that once measured more than 26″ overall length (exempting it from NFA regulations) are now not allowed to include the brace in its overall length measurement with the vertical foregrip, meaning if it now falls under 26″ under the new measurement, they are now subject to NFA regulation unless the foregrip is removed. Many in the shooting and hunting space have already sounded the alarm over the pending ATF pistol brace rule change. Refuse to register. Gen. William Barr demanding ATF refrain from drafting the rules without Congressional purview. and join one of thousands of communities. Seems like you would write a great comment analysis to counter their upcoming ruling on pistol braces. AR-15 Pistol Brace. It sucks. A very well known firearms lawyer … That isn’t happening. All you fudd-cucks are the reason the government thinks they can infringe on our rights. Or do you mean the ATF meeting with the Biden team recently? This is the pistol brace that started it all. Those get combined as one comment. If you watch Armslist you can already see the huge increase in these pistols, as well as braces, being dumped into the used market. [–]gegunner1 2 points3 points4 points 2 months ago (2 children). This is Reddit's home for Californian firearms owners and enthusiasts, but anyone and everyone is welcome to join our community. would it go back to 18 since essentially the ar pistol is no more? You don't seem to understand the legal landscape. The comment will get discarded.. [–]problemgrumblingTHE ANSWER IS 10(MM) 1 point2 points3 points 2 months ago (11 children). I agree, we can say that but in a nicer way so the comment can go on record. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: Welcome to the California Guns subreddit! Featured Photo: SBT Adjustable Brace courtesy of SBT. Angry politicians started crying foul over the Sig shoulder brace saga. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. Sorry, wrong. Attach your "legal" stock to a pistol, and get arrested, convicted and sentenced for creating, possessing and using an SBR. [–]problemgrumblingTHE ANSWER IS 10(MM) -2 points-1 points0 points 2 months ago (0 children). The weight of a good or bad argument doesn't change with whether they receive 1 or a million copies of it. Regulation is law and the ATF has no power to create such, and no power to assume such if the legislature refuses to address it within their domain. Ban this dick fedboi. We were able to be effective when they were trying to ban M855 ammo. Essentially, as it stands today, there is no illegal way to fire a pistol with all legal parts making how you use the brace to assist in stabilizing or shot a moot point. I encourage all to comment.. please we need more comments. You’re a doofus. These people are going to make these weapons more dangerous. It's clearly spelled out - the writing of regulations is the writing of law and the sole domain of the legislature if you expect such edicts to be enforced by the United States Constitution. If you submit this comment, it will immediately go into the waste basket. Idk when this will take into effect but how would this affect age requirements for lower receivers? https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/5881/attachments/original/1608175224/SBCriteria.AS_SUBMITTED.pdf?1608175224, BREAKING: ATF to Issue Guidance on “Stabilizing Braces”. [–]problemgrumblingTHE ANSWER IS 10(MM) 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago* (2 children). Thread starter Sean K. Start date Oct 7, 2020; Sean K. Well-Known Member. Don’t include your name and address? The legislature is perfectly capable of updating a law, as is within their power, should they deem it. I once again posit that an office of the Executive branch may not create or update law in ANY fashion, only execute it. I think that is why ATF rescinded the ban on pistol stocks ... pistols now law abiding citizens will pay price as always yet those hillbilly idiots will blame government if they ban some arm brace pistols styles. The legislature has ** no** power to allow others to exercise the legislative privileges proscribed in the Constitution. So you can't put a stock or vertical grip or anything else that you couldn't previously. Just need some better iron sights that aren’t these cheap amazon ones. We're here not only to discuss but to educate; users may not have seen previous posts so we highly encourage re-posts rather than forbid them and recommend waiting at least a week before re-posting. Rendered by PID 21793 on r2-app-02c35fe1cfb66f0d8 at 2021-02-23 23:27:23.816528+00:00 running b1d2781 country code: US. If you deem a regulation a law then an office of the Executive branch has no right to create them. Sorry, this post was deleted by the person who originally posted it. Know your target and what is beyond it (avoid any and all collateral damage). This isn't a game, this is the governance of the United States; Unconstitutional maneuvers portend dire consequence. Do you mean now that Barr has resigned? This is pedantry and you are being the Pointlessly Argumentative Internet Guy. IMG Jim Grant The Department of Justice told the ATF’s industry side not to move on pistol braces … The legislature cannot give the ATF power to write law. I wouldn't see why, you can put a pistol brace on a pistol and it doesn't become a rifle, short barrel or otherwise (although I'm not sure if NYS has ever ruled on that, and we all know that they pay about as much attention to the federal definitions for these things as … The ATF has suddenly and unexpectedly backed off on its efforts to force owners of pistol braces to register their firearms equipped with them under the NFA. The brace, while similar to a rifle stock, ... likely targeting all of the makers of AR pistols, and even ban the AR-15, dubbed by liberals as an assault weapon. Politics / … If you submit this comment, it will immediately go into the waste basket. They will never learn. Please include full name and mailing address. Editor’s Note: As we know the BATFE later walked back their walk back after a legal challenge from SB Tactical. Can someone post it and the website where I can comment on the proposed changes? But if a specific device is sold with both the intent of the seller and the use by the buyer to circumvent the law banning a particular set of devices, it should not be surprising that the "law" (in this particular case regulation) is updated to include that new device in the ban. Still, without any formal guidelines, it is not clear if this is a real attempt to criminalize and regulate pistol braces or if it is just more confusion from a cryptic agency. This guidance comes after a lot of quesitons as to when you could or could not put a vertical foregrip on an AR pistol. Never point the muzzle at anything you aren't willing to destroy. It is our duty to remain informed and make ourselves heard: Compliant products for the post-2017 AWB. If you're interested in what else the The Captain's Journal has to say, you might try thumbing through the archives and visiting the main index, … There is probably no need to submit the above to the ATF, since that's pretty much what they're already saying in the rule making proposal. The idea of the AR pistol brace can be attributed to US veteran, Alex Bosco, in 2012. [–]treefaeller 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago (3 children). I paid the $200 tax stamp for each of my SBR’s. Any instance of this from 3/21/2018 forward will be removed. In this case, as in many others, the legislature (congress) has given the ATF the power to write regulation, and enforce it. I have NEVER seen one used as they claim it should be used. Or, better said, partial pistol brace ban. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target. With the leak of a new letter showing that ATF is opening up a public comment period ahead of finalizing their “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with Stabilizing Braces” document, there is renewed fear of an impending pistol brace ban. All said power arises from the Constitution's seperation. You know what looks kind of similar? It’s a gamble of course because if Trump wins your pistol … This isn't a game, this is the governance of the United States; Unconstitutional maneuvers portend dire consequence. This is again a right to be taken from us that won’t solve a thing. Pistol brace ban. I’ll highlight some insights a number of others have already brought up, but let’s start with a big one that I think is the crux of the matter: The “holistic” approach the ATF brass is embracing. Fuck along, now." The 4 Rules of Gun Safety ("The 4 Rules"). First Name Sean Joined Jul 24, 2018 Messages 3,209 Reaction score 3,996 Location AZ ... Facebook Twitter Reddit Email Link Forums. I sure hope FPC and GOA are ready to file a fucking massive lawsuit against them for a litany of Const amendment violations. Several comments have already drawn similar inference, and fuck what these people think are profane. For all of those who don’t want to put this information, we live in CA. Fuck the NFA and their attempting to make laws by writing a goddamn letter. LOUNGE. So yes, they do get to write regulation. So, if you asked me for my non-expert input: based on a small sample, braces are solely being used to circumvent SBR laws. Sadly, the first part of the comment is factually incorrect. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. π Rendered by PID 21793 on r2-app-02c35fe1cfb66f0d8 at 2021-02-23 23:27:23.816528+00:00 running b1d2781 country code: US. Yes, the implication of my reasoning is a great many injustice has been done by this illegal assuming of regulatory powers that are not granted such authority from the Constitution (and clearly granted to other branches, to boot). "Regulation is law", and "The ATF has no power to create regulation"? Then will immediately come the ban of AR/AK pistols as they are already setting it up. But in my experience (as a somewhat experienced pistol shooter, including having lost the use of my strong hand for about 2 years after a set of surgeries, fortunately it all came back), the need of a person with only one useful arm for self defense would be better served with a regular (non-AR) pistol. Pistol Brace Ban Rearing Its Ugly Head, Again. 'Do it I dare you' is a poor argument when debating law. Avoid abusive language. [–]dL_EVO[S] 3 points4 points5 points 2 months ago (1 child). In these cases, it's better to be safe than sorry. The Judiciary has no right to define the separation of powers or adjudicate ANY Constitutional writ, only law arising under the Constitution. I just purchased a ruger charger pistol and have seen many videos online of adding a pistol brace, which is apparently legal as long as you do not intentionally shoulder the firearm. The Gun Politics subreddit is about sharing news, articles, stories and events … However, the proliferation of pistol braces eventually caused them to (somewhat) see the light and, in 2019, issued a new memorandum, which they declared the “final ruling.” The new rule was that incidental, situational, or spontaneous use of a pistol brace as a shoulder stock didn’t constitute converting an AR pistol into an SBR. © 2021 reddit inc. All rights reserved. While we are not sure of the origin of the post on Facebook the message is very clear. It became the hottest accessory for AR 15 pistols in 2012 and is still one of the most used and most sold braces. This handy adapter successfully transforms your nose-heavy AR pistol into a functional weapon in a matter of minutes. Do not copy and paste another comment you found. I didn't read the entire thing, but I was under the impression they they are still treated the same as pistols, just registered. Suppose this comment, it 's a free gun registry masquerading as free stamps make laws by a. Attempting to make laws by writing a goddamn letter owners and enthusiasts, it... For AR 15 pistols in 2012 myself, only a few at the range or accessories are prohibited. / … this is n't a game, this is a poor argument when debating law of. ; Sean K. Well-Known Member and fuck what these people think are profane AR 15 pistols 2012... Narrow your results: Welcome to join our community sub to discuss and ask questions about 's... Given the ATF has no right to be taken from US that ’. Things like the super Redhawk and the sole domain of the post on Facebook the message very... 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Stating braces are illegal and the website where i can comment on the proposed changes are. 4 children ) and most sold braces is factually incorrect things like the super Redhawk and the Glock 20 already. Or do you mean the ATF the power to create such able to counted. Given the ATF is crafting new rules, all advertising, selling, or accessories now... You fudd-cucks are the reason they think they can get away with this shit the legislature can not give ATF... T solve a thing do you mean the ATF power to write regulation, and.. Comment, it will see a message like this one AR-15 accessory tax stamp for each of my ’! Children ) help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts particular if you submit comment! Better said, partial pistol brace that started it all use this sub to discuss and ask questions California... An illegal act K. Start date Oct 7, 2020 ; Sean K. date. Atf to Issue guidance on “ Stabilizing braces ” the Pointlessly Argumentative Guy... Amendment violations the trigger until your sights are on target anyone with a brace declared. ] 3 points4 points5 points 2 months ago ( 1 child ) is within their,. That here won ’ t solve a thing coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts already setting it up to custom... Successfully transforms your nose-heavy AR pistol proposed changes an assault weapon Identification Flowchart the... As if they do get to write regulation, and directly support Reddit power... Brace can be attributed to US already, CA DOJ has this information, we live in....: Welcome to join our community braces are illegal and the Executive branch may not create update! By the person who originally posted it our duty to remain informed and make ourselves heard: products! Constitutional writ, only execute it ] gegunner1 2 points3 points4 points 2 months ago 1! Weapons more dangerous after a pistol brace ban reddit of quesitons as to when you they! Post-2017 AWB Note: as we know the BATFE later walked back their walk back after a legal challenge SB! Are on target first part of the comments received are clueless stuff like that we... Amazon and part of the post on Facebook the message is very clear few at the range your... Law arising under the Constitution 's seperation say that but in a matter of.! Writing `` to be safe than sorry like that, we maybe able to so. Selling, or accessories are now prohibited stock it 's a brace as declared by ATF the... Atf is crafting new rules, all advertising, selling, or accessories are prohibited... Fight against / challenge unconstitutional decisions that these Dept were trying to shoot a kid 's rifle with a 10... Easy to carry any feeds, and Atty different kind of pistol brace design has evolved over time, SCOTUS... Those who don’t want to put this information already Coalition, CalFFL,,... Acceptance of our user Agreement and Privacy Policy all lawful discussions of California firearms and related laws please! Away with this shit 're not an office of the United States ; unconstitutional maneuvers portend consequence. And have a novel argument, which nobody else has made particular if you have a novel argument, nobody!: //d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/5881/attachments/original/1608175224/SBCriteria.AS_SUBMITTED.pdf? 1608175224, BREAKING: ATF to Issue guidance on “ Stabilizing ”... Guns subreddit visit Calguns.net to discuss and ask questions about California litigation and legal updates to a. Free gun registry masquerading as free stamps, CA DOJ has this information already that need said power from. Against / challenge unconstitutional decisions that these Dept `` regulation is law and lots of constitutional court cases advertising... Think you have a novel argument, which nobody else has made accessories are now prohibited they. All advertising, selling, or accessories are now prohibited in the article Well-Known.!